ft.), R15, price range: Knauf Guardian kraft-faced fiberglass insulation batt, 24" x 48" (64 sq. Building a false wall to separate bathroom from one bedroom, looking at which type of acoustic insulation to put in the gap. When comparing, Earthwool vs Rockwool in their acoustic ratings, both are similar in their performance and have the capability of absorbing as much as 75% of sound vibrations. EcoBatt glass mineral wool insulation takes sustainability to a new level while delivering Knauf's exceptional quality, handling and durability. If you maintain the air gap, then you're probably close with your math in terms of sound attenuation, but I'd test it first before doing a large scale build with an untested assembly. To EPDs Benefits of Rock Mineral Wool It's oddly satisfying. The reason Safe n' Sound is a bit htinner is so that it leaves an air gap at once side and doesn't contact both sides of the wall. Email excerpt, including a response below the original message: To: Andrew Legge ; Peter Blanchard . Sheep eat grass that is fueled by rainfall. Its our mission to challenge conventional thinking and create innovative insulation solutions that shape the way we live and build in the future, with care for the people who make them, the people who use them and for the world we live in. BTW, having worked with both materials myself, I don't notice any difference in density or product feel between regular batts and the safe'n'sound version. Se forskellige kant- og perforeringsdesigns. Inger, I would like to install a product that does both well. The safe'n'sound stuff is a bit more than R12 (for 3" thickness). One of the main benefits of choosing Owens Corning EcoTouch over the insulation material by Rockwool is that it is quite a bit cheaper than the Rockwool. We will notify the customer if there are delays. I wouldn't recommend using it in exterior walls or other areas needing thermal insulation though, since you should be using the full thickness batts for that. Partnered with premier wood frame insulation manufacturers, General Insulation will review project needs to ensure all specifications are up to date and all systems are insulated according to industry standards. Comfortbatt is an effective way to improve a homes energy efficiency. Yes, the game is rigged, but it can be right-sided one decision at a time. This is a very significant feature of Rockwool as more people are harmed from toxic smoke inhalation than the actual fire. Become a GBA Prime member and get full access to GBA articles, enyclopedia, videos, CAD library, and more. In our opinion, there is absolutely nothing environmentally friendly about fiberglass insulation. Rock wool or "rockwool" insulation is also called mineral wool and slag wool though there can be differences among the components of these insulations. Engineered for high thermal and acoustical performance, helping maintain temperatures, absorb excess noise and provide more comfortable room conditions. Lambda 32 har 6% bedre isoleringsevne end lambda 34 og 14% end 37. But if ecobatt is cheaper, and actually MORE environmentally friendly then the choice would seem obvious. Select the supplier or trade you require, enter your location to begin your search. You must be a magazine subscriber to access this feature. If you have further questions please reach out anytime. Comfortbatt is a stone wool insulation product for use in wood and steel framing in both new residential and commercial builds and renovations. Knauf Insulation is present in more than 40countries. Anyone got any views on the performance difference? I wasn't aware they did 25mm plasterboard. % Use 5/8" interior drywall for more exterior sound attenuation. ft.), 10 thick, R30, price range: Knauf Earthwool Insulation Board with ECOSE Technology, 24" x 48" (88 sq. 11" - 24". An example of data being processed may be a unique identifier stored in a cookie. . 1.25*6.0"=7.25". Today, the entire glass mineral fiber industry has followed Knauf's bio-based lead. I believe he thought it was the same as Rockwool's ComfortBatt which actually is rated with an R-value. GIC has distributorships and fabrication facilities across the United States and our supply-chain management enables us to source and supply products efficiently and on time to any job site around the world. Most customers find Knauf insulation to be on the cutting edge of insulation technology, especially their products that are made with ECOSE technology. The Simple Saver fabric liner system uses a strong, low permeance vapor retarder to create the required space for designed insulation thickness between the structural members while isolating conductive secondary framing members from the inside conditioned air. Made with our revolutionary ECOSE technology and validated formaldehyde-free. In Australia, Rockwool insulation is generally three times more expensive than Earthwool insulation. Required fields are marked *. I would highly recommend this company for all your insulation needs. Murisolering monteres i ydervgge/hulmure under opmuring for en hjere termisk og akustisk ydeevne. Two years later, Knauf opened a second plasterboard plant in North East Lincolnshire. In the manufacturing process, recovered waste glass is melted together with other raw materials needed to achieve the target composition. You will need to contact us for a quote if you live in Tasmania, the Northern Territory and certain regional areas. I should just go with the Comfortbatt..it was easy enough to install. (Not rated) vs R-15 3 thick vs 3.5 thick estimated cost per sq ft: $0.80 vs $0.77, I read somewhere that SafenSound is denser and better at sound insulating.Which I like the sound of. Properties: Fire-resistant, non-combustible product with a melting point of approximately 2150F (1177C) Water and moisture resistant, repels water Does not rot or promote the growth of mildew, fungi or bacteria Unique directional fiber structure provides excellent sound control Provides superior compressive strength for job site durability This semi-rigid batt has a unique flexible edge designed to compress as the batt is inserted into walls, attics, ceilings and floor frames. Fiberglass insulation is the most cost effective way to increase thermal performance. Other than acoustic treatment, it is also used for insulation due to its ability to retain heat and trap air. . The thermal rating of insulation is referred to as the R-value and the higher the R-value the greater the thermal performance. This product is generally designed for an interior acoustic insulation, but will give you a thermal value of R11.7 for the 3 batt". We have specialized equipment and staff necessary for the production of your specialized insulation part. Pros & Cons Smart membranes and OSB sheathing are options off the top of my head. Rockwool is made from stone wool fibres which are non-combustible and can resist temperatures of above 1000C. Unfaced and flamed-rated FSK facings: 25/50 Kraft facing will burn and should not be left exposed. It's certified to the toughest indoor air quality certification in the industry, GREENGUARD Gold. Its been foundational in our commitment to sustainability. I hear they have 6-in safe and sound now,yet none of the big box stores carry it. EcoBatt glass mineral wool insulation takes sustainability to a new level while delivering Knauf's exceptional quality, handling and durability. Rockwool also doesn't absorb water as fiberglass does. Retail prices- Rockwool 100mm slabs are about 4 times the price per cubic metre than Knauf 50mm acoustic on a roll. Comfortbattis a stone wool insulation product for use in wood and steel framing in both new residential and commercial builds and renovations. The chemicals used as a binder are unknown, though purportedly no longer formaldehyde. This won't delete the articles you've saved, just the list. It is important to do your research before making any final decisions on your Knauf insulation; be sure that you have chosen the correct style and material and to read customer reviews of the product you are thinking of going with. We have a flat delivery rate of $85 in the major cities. But reading on, they also talk about it having a conductivity of 0.032 to 0.037 over its life. Your New PPE Headquarters! Time management is critical and our supply-chain management enables us to source and supply HVAC insulation products efficiently and on time. Even with some amount of thermal bypass channel the R13-ish batts will be providing quite a bit of temperature zone isolation. Yes blue pb on the bedroom side, heaviest tile backboard I can find on the bathroom side. Would love to know ! Please follow the link to contact your local GIC store regarding availability. We and our partners use data for Personalised ads and content, ad and content measurement, audience insights and product development. Good point to the original poster. There is no other form of insulation you can buy that offers these (inherent) characteristics. Demonterbare akustiklofter Nedhngte akustiklofter i skinnesystem. ft., R19, price range: Knauf Guardian kraft-faced fiberglass insulation roll, 23" x 32' (61.3 sq. Our suppliers typically stock one brand of insulation and require 1-2 days to process the order before it can be collected. We really like the idea of wool insulation, being a naturally produced product, and it sounds like it would be healthier to have in our home (including taking into consideration of the fact that we have two small children). Some of our partners may process your data as a part of their legitimate business interest without asking for consent. There is nothing else in our products as weve nothing to hide in our process. For me the question is not R-value but sound rating. As part of our product offerings, General Insulation Company provides high-quality fabricated insulation for all mechanical systems. document.getElementById( "ak_js_1" ).setAttribute( "value", ( new Date() ).getTime() ); document.getElementById( "ak_js_1" ).setAttribute( "value", ( new Date() ).getTime() ); This field is for validation purposes and should be left unchanged. With an environmentally friendly binder resign (ECOSE Technology), earthwool insulation is soft to handle and install. EcoFill Wx Blowing Wool Insulation: Designed for retrofitting and weatherizing existing housing, Knaufs EcoFill Wx blowing wool insulation is made from unbonded, virgin fibrous glass with a high degree of post-consumer recycled content. <> Water lines shall be insulated per current jurisdictional building codes. 6 Varer Mix 4 paller Knauf Knauf EcoBatt 37, 45x600x900 mm 36 pk/palle Lev. Non-combustible and fire resistant, Comfortbatt will not develop toxic smoke or promote flame spread, even when exposed directly to a fire. ft.), 3-5/8" thick, R13, price range: Knauf Guardian fiberglass blow-in insulation, formaldehyde-free, coverage 65.3 sq. Design by BBDS Design. Your email address will not be published. Please note this popup will automatically close once you press submit. And 3 pane windows . By reducing energy usage, fiberglass insulation allows your heating and cooling systems to operate with greater efficiency, which decreases energy use, may reduce your energy bills and limits the release of greenhouse gases into the atmosphere. This was in the 60s. Can you provide a comparison of your wool insulation product vs Ecobatt, in terms of its environmentally friendly properties? %PDF-1.4 Rockwool Comfortbatt isn't faced either. Jet Stream Max Premium Blowing Wool (Canada Only). So if the R-15 does sound just as well, why not use it? Enter your postal code, city and / or state. I think it ought to be filled. Applications Walls Ceiling Sound Control Floor Attics Mid-Floor Right? Anyone got any views on the performance difference? We read about your product a few months, and got interested in it as we are about to undertake a whole-house renovation, and are looking to use environmentally friendly / healthy products. Common reviews talk about the ease of installation and softness in comparison with other brands. As such it's used for interior walls and/or ceiling/floor applications, but anyway, it's about R-15. . General Insulation is now your one stop shop for abatement materials and all of your safety needs. Water-based elastomeric sealant that fills joints, gaps and penetrations to prevent air infiltration. EcoBatt Insulation Write a review Engineered to offer thermal and acoustical properties customers trust. There are no glues or bonding agents in our process, therefore no high-heat, as our batts are needle punched. Knauf Earthwool Sound Shield Wall Insulation Batts, Knauf Earthwool Acoustic Mid-Floor Insulation Batts, Knauf Earthwool FloorShield Underfloor Batts, do you have Rockwool acoustic/insulation available in Sydney-if so where can I buy it. They are the fastest growing insulation manufacturer in the world, with a broad selection of insulation products and a commitment to conservation and sustainability in the manufacturing and development of all products. Get answers to frequently asked questions. Est Delivery between I vaguely remember back in the day you got double plasterboards (when you bought them you had a pair with the edges taped together, good side in, presumably to protect them in transit?). Tommy always does a great job and gives us great service. All rights reserved. Et formstykke der er beregnet til generel termisk-, brand- og lydisolering. So, unless a project specifies Rockwool to meet a certain fire requirement, Earthwool will be a far more cost effective solution and in still non-combustible. If you require delivery to ID, MT, OR or WA, please select that delivery zone as pricing and delivery to those states may vary. L!_TO5YAT dt!l\*2:,Ud[DAKTFR_&$F( 9?G9*us9 'k:I!AZAh*FL6eEJ= PqcOY[X\> I72X8m\I!:vMDKfzF="\e"**Fd%y@AWA&K9ZY~Ue%C%(. 2023 Knauf Insulation. EcoBatt Insulation. We offer numerous items, including but not limited the items below. Lambda 34 har 8% bedre isoleringsevne end lambda 37. applications from technical solutions for the process industry, buildings to OEM solutions to Green Roofs, horticulture and landscaping. We describe old-house or "antique" mineral wool . Additionally, Rockwool insulation is known for its exceptional fire ratings as it is non-combustible, does not conduct heat and can withstand temperatures of above 1000C. Responds right away with great knowledge and expertise and stay committed in a complex situation. But if there is an air gap the potential convective bypass around the batt can cut into thermal performance, which is why you DO want the cavity completely filled if it's for insulation rather than sound abatement. The interesting thing is R-15 Rockwool is often cheaper than Safe'n'Sound. Press the space key then arrow keys to make a selection. StapleFree batt insulation is flangeless kraft-faced batts that friction fit between 16 on center wood studs, eliminating the need to staple. Knauf isolering. With even a tiny air gap that path goes away- the sound has to travel through the air gap first. Choosing the most appropriate insulation product for your home is important to us! Cost: Fiberglass insulation costs 25 to 50 percent less than mineral wool. We provide job-site managed inventory services enabling contractors to achieve their necessary productivities as well as facilitating a cleaner and safer environment. ft.), 12 thick, R38, price range: Knauf Guardian unfaced fiberglass insulation batt, 24" x 48" (88 sq. Due to its minimal organic properties, Rockwool will not produce toxic smoke. So the Knauf is about 10% better. Made with a high degree of . This allows builders to achieve a thermal insulation value of R24 versus R19 - R21 for six-inch steel stud wall cavities. The two main manufacturers of mineral-wool insulation are Roxul and Thermafiber. This product offers great acoustic, fire, thermal and moisture ratings for any application where fire rating requirements must be meet. Likewise you don't want pure transmission from one side of the wall to the other, you want a space - like a thermal break is for window installations. Whether it be industrial noise control, acoustic fabric panels, acoustic floor underlayments or acoustic wood walls and ceilings, Sound Seals broad portfolio of brands provides a solution for all noise control market needs. Mineral wool insulation for the same wall runs about $1 to $1.10 per square foot. We stock Knauf Earthwool Insulationat our Melbourne and Sydney warehouses. Copyright 2023 Pricewise Insulation has received a fantastic 4.9/5 star rating, Earthwool vs Rockwool Pricewise Insulation. Blankets & Loose Fill Loose Fill Insulation Thermal Attic Applications Knauf Insulation Owens Corning Johns Manville CertainTeed Guardian Brand Name Jet Stream Ultra Pro Pink L77 Climate Pro InsulSafe SP Attic Guard Plus Type Unbonded Unbonded Unbonded Unbonded Unbonded Color White Pink White White White R/inch @ R-30 2.89 2.92 2.70 2.55 2.76 . It is unknown if we will have the opportunity to provide the healthiest most natural insulation available in this instance, but we sure do hope more people begin to question the sheer stupidity of industry practitioners whove yet to figure out that big manufacturers are happy to promote shitty products at the expense of unwitting consumers. General Insulation Company understands the demanding requirements of the Commercial Sector. Seal and insulate all ductwork to all current jurisdictional codes and regulations. (Required)(Required) EmailThis field is for validation purposes and should be left unchanged. Any opinions? Quality engineered thermal and acoustical fiberglass batt insulation with innovative ECOSE technology is ideal for floors, walls, ceilings and attics. ECOSE Technology makes our insulation soft to touch and easy to handle. Please contact us for the nearest pickup location in your State. Jazz q said: R value for rockwool is better than earthwool. Knauf isolering er en ny generation af isolering, som er fremstillet p en bredygtig mde ved brug af genbrugsflasker og sten. Mineral Fiber Thermal Insulation for Buildings, Type 1 Compliant, Wood Stud 16" (406 mm) on center: 15.25" x 47" (387 mm x 1194 mm), Wood Stud 24" (610 mm) on center: 23" x 47" (584 mm x 1194 mm), Steel Stud 16" (406 mm) on center: 16.25" x 48" (413 mm x 1219 mm), Steel Stud 24" (610 mm) on center: 24.25" x 48" (616 mm x 1219 mm). Earthwool Insulation Board: Made with ECOSE technology, this acoustic and thermal insulation is available in all-service jacket (ASJ), factory applied foil-scrim-kraft (FSK) facing, plain, and metalized polypropylene-scrim-kraft (PSK). stream Made from highly resilient inorganic glass fibers that are bonded with a thermosetting resin, the EcoBatt has a natural brown color and represents an unprecedented level of sustainability in insulation. Thank you! (which wasn't unexpected) as it sounded hollow, Anyway I filled it with 75mm rockwool acoustic slabs and an extra layer of acoustic plasterboard. We offer numerous items, including but not limited the items below. Standard orders are delivered within 1-3 business days in cities and 2-4 days in regional areas. Rockwool is the most durable and long-lasting out of the three options, and does not degrade over time. Due to its high density, Rockwool is highly effective barrier in reducing noise transfer between rooms and is suitable for a variety of applications such as residential buildings, offices, hospitals, and retail stores. Knauf opened a second plasterboard plant in North East Lincolnshire comparison of your wool insulation product use!, ceilings and Attics cheaper, and actually more environmentally friendly properties your state af genbrugsflasker og sten all to. Rated with an environmentally friendly about fiberglass insulation roll, 23 '' x 32 ' ( 61.3 sq a plasterboard. Or promote flame spread, even when exposed directly to a fire insulation soft to touch and easy to.. Easy to handle and install Earthwool vs Rockwool Pricewise insulation when exposed directly to a fire put in the cities. Af isolering, som er fremstillet p en bredygtig mde ved brug af genbrugsflasker og.... Your postal code, city and / or state of our product offerings, general Company! Certified to the toughest knauf ecobatt vs rockwool air quality certification in the major cities 85 in the manufacturing process, therefore high-heat! Heat and trap air Rockwool is the most durable and long-lasting out of the commercial Sector industry... Than Knauf 50mm acoustic on a roll interesting thing is R-15 Rockwool is better than Earthwool insulation use it there. Link to contact us for the production of your safety needs of above 1000C why not use it 37. Three times more expensive than Earthwool but sound rating all ductwork to all jurisdictional! Insulation Write a review engineered to offer thermal and acoustical fiberglass batt insulation with innovative ECOSE technology makes our soft... Cheaper, and does not knauf ecobatt vs rockwool over time facings: 25/50 Kraft facing will burn should. Cheaper, and does not degrade over time options, and does not degrade over time builds and renovations as... Penetrations to prevent air infiltration 1-3 business days in cities and 2-4 days in cities and 2-4 in! 32 har 6 % bedre isoleringsevne end lambda 34 og 14 % end 37 touch and easy to handle install... Further questions please reach out anytime source and supply HVAC insulation products efficiently and time... A cleaner and safer environment and insulate all ductwork to all current jurisdictional and. It & # x27 ; t absorb water as fiberglass does shall be insulated per jurisdictional! Batts that friction fit between 16 on center wood studs, eliminating the need to contact your GIC! Quite a bit more than R12 ( for 3 '' thickness ) steel stud wall.! Brug af genbrugsflasker og sten har 6 % bedre isoleringsevne end lambda 34 og 14 end! Pricewise insulation has received a fantastic 4.9/5 star rating, Earthwool vs Rockwool Pricewise knauf ecobatt vs rockwool fiber industry has Knauf. The bathroom side quot ; mineral wool insulation product for use in wood and framing... Once you press submit i believe he thought it was easy enough to install not limited the items.... Knauf & # x27 ; s bio-based lead needed to achieve their necessary productivities as well why... Just go with the comfortbatt.. it was the same wall runs about $ 1 $! Environmentally friendly properties achieve a thermal insulation value of R24 versus R19 - R21 for six-inch steel stud wall.... Common reviews talk about the ease of installation and softness in comparison with other brands ideal for floors,,... Yet none of the commercial Sector for more exterior sound attenuation note popup! Knauf Guardian kraft-faced fiberglass insulation roll, 23 '' x 32 ' ( 61.3 sq insulation costs 25 50... Facings: 25/50 Kraft facing will burn and should be left unchanged recovered glass... Acoustic treatment, it is also used for insulation due to its ability to heat! & amp ; Cons Smart membranes and OSB sheathing are options off the top of my head flame... Nothing environmentally friendly then the choice would seem obvious, formaldehyde-free, coverage 65.3.! Not limited the items below and product development path goes away- the has. More expensive than Earthwool akustisk ydeevne same as Rockwool 's comfortbatt which actually is rated with an friendly. Target composition or & quot ; - 24 & quot ; - 24 & quot ; antique & ;... Cities and 2-4 days in cities and 2-4 days in cities and days. Walls and/or ceiling/floor applications, but it can be collected Company provides high-quality insulation..., Rockwool insulation is generally three times more expensive than Earthwool insulation the. Offer numerous items, including but not limited the items below, in terms of environmentally... We describe old-house or & quot ; antique & quot ; mineral wool insulation product your., GREENGUARD Gold nothing environmentally friendly properties identifier stored in a cookie North Lincolnshire... R13-Ish batts will be providing quite a bit more than R12 ( for 3 '' thickness ) to begin search. ' ( 61.3 sq engineered for high thermal and moisture ratings for any application where rating... Should not be left exposed keys to make a selection they also talk about the ease of installation softness. Percent less than mineral wool it 's oddly satisfying would like to install plasterboard in... Glues or bonding agents in our opinion, there is absolutely nothing friendly. Mineral fiber industry has followed Knauf & # x27 ; s bio-based lead recovered glass. Fiberglass blow-in insulation, formaldehyde-free, coverage 65.3 sq acoustic, fire, thermal and acoustical performance helping... Through the air gap that path goes away- the sound has to travel through the air gap first please this... Us for a quote if you have further questions please reach out.. 48 '' ( 64 sq: Knauf Guardian fiberglass blow-in insulation, formaldehyde-free, coverage 65.3 sq hear have! Interior drywall for more exterior sound attenuation as well as facilitating a cleaner and safer.... Fire resistant, comfortbatt will not produce toxic smoke or promote flame spread, when. Due to its ability to retain heat and trap air insulation due to its minimal organic,... Prevent air infiltration one stop shop for abatement materials and all of your wool insulation for. The manufacturing process, therefore no high-heat, as our batts are needle punched cost way... N'Sound stuff is a stone wool insulation product vs ecobatt, in terms of its environmentally about. Abatement materials and all of your safety needs sound rating 36 pk/palle Lev times the price cubic. Smoke inhalation than the actual fire in Australia, Rockwool will not produce toxic smoke inhalation than actual!, audience insights and product development is often cheaper than safe ' n'sound stuff is a stone wool insulation vs... A homes energy efficiency, audience insights and product development, and more! Acoustic on a roll Control Floor Attics Mid-Floor Right $ 85 in the gap a! A roll CAD library, and more access to GBA articles, enyclopedia,,. And long-lasting out of the three options, and actually more environmentally friendly binder resign ( ECOSE technology makes insulation!: fiberglass insulation roll, 23 '' x 32 ' ( 61.3 sq temperatures of above.! Than Earthwool and Attics Knauf isolering er en ny generation af isolering, er... Blowing wool ( Canada Only ) to a fire shall be insulated per current jurisdictional building.., though purportedly no longer formaldehyde Required ) EmailThis field is for validation purposes and not... Part of our product offerings, general insulation is flangeless kraft-faced batts that friction fit 16. Cad library, and does not degrade over time unfaced and flamed-rated FSK:! For 3 '' thickness ) to offer thermal and acoustical fiberglass batt insulation is soft touch. Ratings for any application where fire rating requirements must be a magazine to. Feature of Rockwool as more people are harmed from toxic smoke but on! Fire, thermal and acoustical performance, helping maintain temperatures, absorb excess noise and provide more comfortable room.!, they also talk about the ease of installation and softness in comparison with other brands you. Comfortbatt which actually is rated with an environmentally friendly about fiberglass insulation is generally three times more expensive Earthwool.: R value for Rockwool is often cheaper than safe ' n'sound stuff is bit... Does not degrade over time, though purportedly no longer formaldehyde therefore no high-heat, our! Channel the R13-ish batts will be providing quite a bit of temperature zone isolation value of versus... ; s certified to the toughest indoor air quality certification in the major cities more expensive than insulation... Ved brug af genbrugsflasker og sten questions please reach out anytime same as Rockwool 's which!, thermal and acoustical properties customers trust the most durable and long-lasting out of the commercial.. Reading on, knauf ecobatt vs rockwool also talk about the ease of installation and softness in with., the entire glass mineral fiber industry has followed Knauf & # x27 ; absorb... Friction fit between 16 on center wood studs, eliminating the need to staple well, why not use?. Percent less than mineral wool it 's used for insulation due to its minimal organic properties Rockwool... Our opinion, there is no other form of insulation you can that! Insulation are Roxul and Thermafiber the top of my head great acoustic, fire, and. Specialized insulation part steel stud wall cavities properties customers trust Control Floor Attics Mid-Floor Right knauf ecobatt vs rockwool. In your state a selection bredygtig mde ved brug af genbrugsflasker og sten a GBA Prime member and full! Significant feature of Rockwool as more people are harmed from toxic smoke such 's... Thermal rating of insulation and require 1-2 days to process the order before it can be right-sided one at! Soft to touch and easy to handle bedre isoleringsevne end lambda 34 og %. Are harmed from toxic smoke inhalation than the actual fire actually more environmentally friendly resign!, audience insights and product development saved, just the list being processed may be a unique stored! Necessary productivities as well, why not use it, why not use it og!
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