?I assume you mean do the top bed the traditional method with the calculated chalk line level worked uniformly down to the drain?? Point drain with integrated bonding flange. Some of the acrylic based ones are pretty maintenance free, too. That will eliminate/slow down theloss of moisture from the mortar. Get home building tips, offers, and expert advice in your inbox. Bring all of these elements together using the profiles and fasteners specifically designed for KERDI-BOARD assemblies. For all the substrates listed in this Handbook (e.g., gypsum board, cement backerboard, etc. If you intend to install another type of floor, such as hardwood, there is no need for DITRA. The only reason I am asking this question outside the original thread and questions I have asked is that it is specific. The advantage is that your waterproofing membrane is located just under the tiles instead of below 1 or so inches of deck mud and can therefore dry out more easily. Im installing Schluter-KERDI over drywall in my shower. Different options and thicknesses of DITRA membrane are available to best suit the needs of your project. Feel free to move it if necessary. Using a Prefabricated Shower Tray and Ramp. Quite a few people on this site have used versabond. View Full Version : kerdi foam shower tray over OSB. This is very important for OSB boards that are used as floors. The back side of the drywall fails and it is just as bad or worse than if it had an issue on the tile side. I figured on 2 but had to pick up one more later, but my local tile shop has a wide variety of brands in stock. Did the article get this detail grotesquely wrong? WebWhat Mortar for Schluter Kerdi & Ditra Nathan Wallace 7 years ago I am getting ready to install 12x24 tile in my shower and floor and going to be using the Kerdi membrane over I need to get rid of the old trap and cap off then tie in a new trap. It's important to note that latex-modified thinset can still be used between the membrane and the subfloor because it is not impervious. Why is it so easy to peel it off the wall today? Cut a section of Kerdi off the roll and dry fit it on the hardie. Does unmodified thinset stick to plywood? Came in day after laying tile to find kids had 'walked in' the bathrom despite the levels crisscrossing the entry way. Tiles were 12x12.Let's not confuse the issue with facts! No matter how firm the subfloor; the plywood will expand and contract at a different rate as the tile, causing cracks to develop in the grout lines or tiles over time. Possibly. This is a dialog window which overlays the main content of the page. Ceramic Tile Advice Forums - John Bridge Ceramic Tile. Yes, I'm moving the drain to the center. Is Kerdi band necessary? Ceramic tiling can be installed onto 23/32 OSB subflooring panels where the panels are supported by 16 o.c. I doubt they approve it coated in Redgard rather than their own materials. I'm of the opinion now that I'll use what's best for the stick with the subfloor. Any specific type/brand to look for? For good new rock music, click on: http://www.wolfmother.com. I think I was looking for someone to verify what I knew to be the answerha ha. A 1/4" x 3/16" (6 mm x 5 mm) V-notched trowel or the Schluter-KERDI-TROWEL is recommended.. How do I seal Schluter-KERDI to a bathtub? We can give it a more generic title any time you'd like. ;). Pressing the Escape (ESC) button will close the modal and bring you back to where you were on the page. Let me ask you thisif i use just the four longest (and therefore the highest) quick pitch sticks that go out to the cornersthey could still serve as a guide right?or would you suggest eliminating the sticks all together and just go for it?.How long will this dry pack stay workable? The time to dampen the Hardi is before you put thinset and tile on top. The only place for Redgard in your shower would be to seal a niche, since you would be cutting the moisture barrier to install one of those. a buddy said J Bridges is now saying he uses modified on top and underneath too. The setting bed is uniformly the same thickness all across the floor, so the surface will also be 1/4" per foot. Tile is installed over DITRA using the thin-bed method in such a way that the mortar becomes mechanically anchored in the square, cutback cavities of the matting. 1. 1) The preslope is tapered at a 1/4" per foot pitch. Schluter-KERDI-DS is required for continuous use steam rooms What type of thin-set mortar should I use when installing Schluter-KERDI? We are trying to lay slate tile in an entryway. A-holes. Schluter-KERDI is a pliable sheet-applied waterproofing membrane and vapor-retarder designed for the direct application of tile. http://www.johnbridge.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=91369. I'm good front to back (32" depth). Schluter -DITRA and DITRA-XL are specifically designed for ceramic and stone tile installations. the modified cured differently (or was it the unmodified?) Once the KERDI membrane, including seams, corners and protrusions have been completely bonded and, therefore, waterproofed, the assembly is ready to be tiled. Took 2 1/2 bags of thinset, but quite honestly lots either wound up on the floor or got dumped as I did the thing in stages. 5 When to use Kerdi band after mortar installation? Kerdi eliminates water damage which can lead to mold and mildew. This way any moisture that makes it past the grout can't cause any damage. Dont also forget the convenience that DITRA offers for tile installation jobs. Very important points Jadnashua has pointed out. I will look into it. If that is the case, I am assuming Versabond is ok? Since my walls are still open the sweating should be tolerable.only gonna be against drywall on a few sweats and its the garage on the other side so its expendable wall if I need to cut access. Its crucial to pre-cut before installation as that will make your work easier. Thus, additional measures must be taken to protect wall cavities from water and vapor penetration. I'm not so sure any of this makes a difference? Waterproofing Corners: Schluter-KERDI-KERECK, 1. Seams can ooze the stuff, though, so be sure to knock it down when it comes out. Great product. WebDitra can be installed over a variety of subfloors including concrete, plywood, OSB and radiant heated floors. Do I need an uncoupling membrane on plywood? You can use one to work the DITRA into the thinset. Is this going to be a mud job? Support answered that they recommend modified. KERDI has been evaluated according to the Standard Method for the Testing and Evaluation of Volatile Organic Chemical Emissions from Indoor Sources Using Environmental Chambers, Version 1.1 for California Specification 01350 and found to comply with the VOC requirements. If you can tile a shower you can do a mud bed. For acid-resistant coverings, use an epoxy adhesive to set and grout the tile. 5. Thanks again for your advice Jim, I appreciate it. Kerdi is all about drywall. Thanks Kevin. You can slightly lift one of the edges to check on the progress. I put down 500 sf of that stuff in a kitchen in January, and followed the handy-dandy instruction book by Schluter. The KERDI-BOARD will protect the ceiling from both water and vapor penetration. All shower/tub areas should have concrete board (I prefer hardiboard). Undoubtedly, the OSB board will suck some moisture from the thinset mortar. I am nearing completion of my tile shower project. 2. Dam up any area you dont want/need the leveler to go into. Once you install KERDI over the drywall panels, they will be completely protected from the water and vapor in your tiled shower. For showers and bathtub surrounds, KERDI must be carried to the height of the showerhead at minimum What size notched trowel should I use to install Schluter-KERDI? 4. To allow for greater movement, the center section of the KERDI-FLEX can be tucked into the cavity of the expansion joint prior to bonding. Excellence is its own reward! In a perfect job, it will waterproof. Which Thinset for Kerdi? That can be mitigated by using DITRAs waterproofing capabilities. The type of bonding mortar used to apply KERDI must be suitable for the substrate and must penetrate and engage the membrane fleece What type of thin-set mortar should I use when installing ceramic and stone tile over Schluter-KERDI? Follow the Wood Underlayment installation guidelines as found in the Schluter-DITRA or Schluter-DITRA-HEAT Installation Handbooks for fastening guidelines. Looks like it should work. Happy Friday good people. If your trap and drain pipe is not supported from below, when you try to push the drain down to make the jointit will push the drain itself down. Does Schluter-KERDI waterproofing membrane have a front/back to it? Glass tiles are unique products and may require special consideration. KERDI was developed as a waterproofing membrane to be used in conjunction with ceramic and stone tile coverings. Have a 59 wide acrylic shower base going into a 59 opening (drywall was already on all 3 walls). Invictus, by Henley. But its pretty strong, which is why it is commonly used on floors. You do want to ensure that the riser pipe is as close to plumb as you can get, and block the bottom of the trap so that it won't move. On the surface, OSB may look fragile. The thin-set mortar used for bonding KERDI must be appropriate for the substrate, and it must penetrate and engage the KERDI fleece. I did pretty much the same size enclosure with the same Schluter system, but used large format tiles for half of the enclosure and the one short dimension wall was 1/2 height. All shower/tub areas should have concrete board (I prefer hardiboard). Well damn. Even though OSB3 can be used in humid areas. It's easier to get things level when applied thicker, but that may not be what you want because of height stackups. This may leave you wondering, wont the OSB suck moisture from themortarused in DITRA installation. If you are going to use the Kerdi pan then I would use Kerdi membrane and follow the manufacturer's instructions exactly for the entire installation. Install over a wide range of substrates, including plywood/OSB, concrete, gypsum, heated floors, etc. Also, apply the acrylic mastic between the Royce,do you like the TEC better than Kerabond? Can't vouch for the quality but the Kerdi stuck to the wall and the tile to the Kerdi. When discussing the steps of installing DITRA over OSB, we mentioned that you should mix up the thinset so that its not too thick or thin. No brand recommendation from me. Step 5 Install the DITRA Over the Thinset. The latter is ideal for structural and load-bearing applications such as floors. A modified needs to dry as well as cure to achieve full strength, but achieves a lot of that in the first day. KERDI is ideal for use in tiled showers, bathtub surrounds, residential steam showers, and other tile applications in wet areas. Go with a masonry bench or look into the better bench or nobel bench. Its a lot easier to do it right the first time and cheaper also. over expansion joints or construction joints. Tile will go over the kerdi. The wood will absorb the excess moisture and one way to think of it, the fleece on Kerdi is essentially the same as on Ditra, which does call for a modified to attach to ply. OSB boards are good at sucking in moisture. But the good news is that it will only suck a little amount which wont affect the adhesion of DITRA or the OSB itself. "a buddy said J Bridges is now saying he uses modified on top"I believe that they are using a LIGHT modified TS.But I don't remember the brand.. CEMENT based only !!!!! To ensure the floor is Get one you are most comfortable with, as that will make the installation much easier. California Specification 01350 is referenced by various green building standards and rating systems. Send us an email: , Using a Prefabricated Shower Tray and Ramp, 1. Uncoupling and waterproofing membrane: Schluter-DITRA, 4. The Kerdi seems very well adhered to the plywood. They can even be used with heated floors, and in some cases, they can be installed on top of vinyl flooring. Please note that you need 48 hours for full cure on the Kerabond. KERDI-BOARD can be installed both vertically and horizontally using the screws and washers in our hardware assortment. There are two methods to seal KERDI to a bathtub. Doesn't matter, though. DITRA-HEAT-DUO features an integrated bonding fleece that provides sound control, as well as a thermal break. 173 and followed their instructions, laying down3/4 OSB down and are trying to lay Ditra over it. WebDitra can be installed over a variety of subfloors including concrete, plywood, OSB and radiant heated floors. The only time I've used Ultraflex with a Schluter product is when I adhere Ditra to a plywood substrate, if you put Ditra over a SLC you need to go back to unmodified. Mix up the thinset with water until you get your desired consistency. clean, dry no lose paint etc. Once you get your pics to about 600 pixels high by 400 wide, they'll upload in a snap. You can also use Schluter-KERDI, a membrane made of polyethylene. So, heres my dilemma. The simple answer is yes. Ditra allows modified thinset to lay the Ditra down, but requires unmodified TS when setting the tile on the Ditra. For tile installations using the thin-bed method, apply Schluter-SET, Schluter-ALL-SET, Schluter-FAST-SET, or unmodified thin-set mortar directly to the exposed KERDI surface and install the tiles, ensuring full coverage. Yes, the final setting bed is made by installing the barrel of the drain fitting and adjusting it to about 1-1/4" above the liner, then drawing a level line around the shower perimeter to that same dimension. You can now lay the DITRA over the thinset. You should be good to go anytime now. A mud bed can seem intimidating if you have never done it, but if you take your time and don't rush, it really isn't that hard. Hi Danny. A couple of questions: What color grout are you planning to use? Thanks BobI had seen the problem with the shorter pre pitch sticks solved by shimming them up with mud until level with the long outside oneswas gonna do that any suggestion on another method?maybe I'll shim em up with extra lath now that I know need that in there? Connections to fixed building elements can be achieved by using KERDI, KERDI-BAND, or KERDI-FLEX in conjunction with KERDI-FIX, suitable trowel-applied waterproofing materials (such as urethane or similar), that require atmospheric moisture to cure, or other suitable sealing compounds. View Full Version : Can I use liquid membrane like HydroBan or Redgard with a Schluter shower tray? With the KERDI-SHOWER-TT thin shower tray on a wood subfloor, you can build up the rest of the bathroom floor by installing either a 5/8" or 3/4" plywood/OSB panel on top of the wood subfloor along with DITRA or another Schluter-Systems uncoupling membrane. There are different types of OSB, from OSB1 to OSB3. DITRA has a nominal 1/8" (3 mm)-thickness which minimizes tile assembly thickness. If the seam is nice, you could use some clear epoxy and essentially butt them together - just make sure you've leveled them really well. Jobsite Saw PRO has a wider table, a new dust-control port, and a more versatile fence, along with the same reliable safety mechanism included in all SawStop tablesaws. Can you install Kerdi board directly on studs? Acrylic is the best system to use for shower walls because it is the safest, least high maintenance, and easy to install, meaning your shower could be done in as little as one day. For instance, you may be wondering will DITRA raise theheightof the OSB floor? Epoxy grouts are pretty much maintenance free (at least they don't need a sealer). "I am the master of my fate, I am the captain of my soul." Made of polyethylene, DITRA also serves as a waterproofing layer that protects moisture-sensitive substrates, such as plywood/OSB. houndzilla Sorry about that. JLC Online: Best practices for professional builders and remodelers. Cover the joints with KERDI-FLEX. Have you looked over the Ditra website? You don't want a ridge there. >The KERDI-SHOWER-T/-TS/-TT are prefabricated sloped shower trays that eliminate the need for a mortar bed, thus reducing both the weight and installation time. The Latest Innovations That Are Driving The Vehicle Industry Forward. The material is equally suitable for creating level substrates in floor renovation projects e.g. Is there a product you would recommend? Wedi board is probably the most popular if, for no other reason, that it's been out the longest. OSB, though slightly different from plywood, it is still a wood product. First Kerdi can be installed on drywall or cement board. The Kerdi foam shower tray needs to be applied with thin set under it ? We are very concerned about any moisture at all getting into the OSB. Schluter recommends different sizes. KERDI is 8-mil thick and has a water vapor permeance of 0.90 perms, when tested according to ASTM E96, using Procedure E at 90% relative humidity. I have stumbled across a few articles mentioning Fusion Pro with problems on shower floors. Over a concrete subfloor use a bonded mortar bed of appropriate thickness to build up the rest of the bathroom floor. I installed my Schluter-KERDI membrane yesterday. How Do I Get Rid Of Creeping Charlie And Creeping Jenny. Makes things a lot easier. Use unmodified thin set to Work your way aound the shower, placing and packing mud as you go. Contact us: 888-472-4588 Therefore, it really wont raise the OSB floor very high. There is no problem applying Kerdi Membrane over your plaster walls. Have everything set to go BEFORE you mix it. I'll get some pics up over the weekend (batterys dead in camera).. You've got 1/4" Hardi down, but no tile yet, correct? Schluter did tests on using a modified over the membrane between tile - both of which are pretty waterproof and found it took anywhere from 15-70 days to fully dry the modifiers which is why on top of it it is much more critical. In general, unmodified thin-set mortar is a blend of Portland cement, sand, and water retention agents that is mixed with How far up the wall do I need to install the Schluter-KERDI? DITRA-HEAT features a thickness of 1/4" (5.5 mm) and is especially designed to allow for the easy installation of DITRA-HEAT-E-HK heating cables. WebI asked Schluter support about type of thinset under Kerdi shower tray to be installed over OSB. Once it starts to get stiff, it will go off quickly. Contact us: 888-472-4588 Then fill in the rest and slope it to the drain. The pan itself is pretty much locked in place by the walls and curb, and the bond, while important, isn't the main thing holding it in place. Measure carefully, as it's not always possible to seat the drain onto the riser except when it is coated with the fresh cement. Before you start, you should know that if you are working on OSB, you should use modified thinset mortar. I used Kerdi and I followed the Bathtub surround instructions with Kerdi band on the bottom and Kerdi fix to attach it to the shower base. Support answered that they recommend modified. No, it wont interfere with the performance or adversely effect it. Step 4 Grab Your Trowel and Install the Modified Thinset. You'll be surprised how quickly the stuff solidifies! Air bubbles must be avoided. Its a water-resistant membrane used for tiles and paver coverings. 173 and followed their instructions, laying down 3/4 OSB down and - M.K. Jim and Robert (and others) thanks so much for your help and advice. 4. 1 Can you put Kerdi membrane over plywood? and since the plastic did absorb any moisture . it did cure as quick and the "excess" moisture could screw up the grout. SawStop's Portable Tablesaw is Bigger and Better Than Before, Podcast 530: PRO TALK With Architecture Student Phillip Schladweiler, Podcast 529: Cold Floors, Galvanic Corrosion, and Siding Over Board Sheathing. After the mud screed is set, fill the area between the mud screen and the drain fitting with mud, again slightly higher than needed, then use more straight edged boards to pack the mud down in a straight line beteen the mud screed and the drain. The article says they used Latex modified mortar between the OSB and Ditra. Schluter-KERDI-KERS are preformed, seamless corners made of KERDI for waterproofing floor/wall/shower base connections in curbless shower applications where the KERDI-LINE drain is installed adjacent to the wall. Step 2 Cut the DITRA Into Smaller Sizes. If you look at the recommended tile substrates, you will not find OSB anywhere on that list. Hi Bill,That's right, John Bridge uses LIGHTLY modified thinset under Schluter's membrane products. bags at Lowe's that you can get for less than the cost of a 50lb bag. From there, you can let the DITRA cure on the OSB with the help of the thinset, and you will be done with installation. Danny, download Irfanview (http://www.irfanview.com/), a free image viewer/editor. The thickness of the tile assembly is minimized by using Ditra, These alternatives are applicable depending on what you intend to do over the OSB subfloor. RedGuard is not harder to adhere to. "I have learned so much thanks to the searchable articles on the FHB website. I knew better than to start another thread! How Do I Get Rid Of Green Mold In My Lawn? Prefabricated shower tray: Schluter-KERDI-SHOWER-T/-TS/-TT, 3. Since you're using a tray, I think you better get the 7/8". He uses Custom's Versabond under Kerdi without any problems. Besides the fact that it is safe to use DITRA over OSB floors, there are many benefits that one gets from merging these two building products. I will explain why you should use the V-notched trowel. Something which would consume a lot of time and money. Mark the slope or high point on the walls. Using the flat side of the trowel, work the thinset on the OSB floor. Generally, Schluter-SET, Schluter-ALL-SET, Schluter-FAST-SET, or unmodified thin-set mortar is used. DITRA will prevent OSB from water damage. A quality unmodified thinset should be used and mixed with a latex additive. Send us an email: . And if you have some low spots after you are done you can always adjust with some thinset. I've "broken the rules" by using lightly modified thinset to tile over Kerdi, but I don't recommend modified thinsets with large format tiles like your 12x24s. I do recommend you use an unmodified, and the already mentioned 317 and Ditraset are great products. I'll recommend Mapei's Kerabond as a very good unmodified thinset too. Other trowel-applied covering materials, such as plaster, can also be used. Tiles are designed to adhere best to concrete or cement boards which are the most popular options these days. Neither one absorbs moisture and both offer some interesting features (glow in the dark! DITRA and DITRA-XL provide uncoupling to prevent cracked tile and grout. With the KERDI-SHOWER-TT thin shower tray on a wood subfloor, you can build up the rest of the bathroom floor by installing either a 5/8 or 3/4 plywood/OSB This includes dirt and dust. Kerdi is a sheet-applied polyethylene waterproofing membrane and vapor retarder. One side of the membrane features printed gridlines Can I install glass tile over Schluter-KERDI? Schluter-KERDI-KERECK and KERDI-KERS-B are preformed, seamless corners made for waterproofing inside and outside corners of KERDI, KERDI-BOARD, and DITRA assemblies to prevent leaks and mold-growth. What material is used behind shower walls? I'd also consider leaving the stuff outside in the garage (as long as it was above freezing) before mixing it up. Kerdi Membrane Installation is typically Step 1 of 4 in the Kerdi Shower Kit installation Process. When to use Kerdi band after mortar installation? How thick is Kerdi membrane with thinset? Waterproofing strip: Schluter-KERDI-BAND, 5. Seems like a decent choice when no other is readily available. Not a marble expert but from what I understand marble absorbs water a lot and is easy to stain. More recently, Laticrete Hydroban Board, and Johns Manville GoBoard have all come on the market. There are a lot of concerns one may have when using a product such as DITRA over OSB. . ..your opinion on shimming up the shorter pre pitch sticks?and I'm puzzled how the main bed would follow the 1/4" taper set in the pre pitch bed on the main bed surface without the sticks?