And I think, giventhe market history had sullied the picture. That'syou know, those are all possibilities. [00:32:01]. JUDITH RICHARDS: Because they seemed cheap? I said, "I'm just a local guy, and I just came by to see this collection. You know, let's put it in numbers: $10,000 to $250,000. [00:14:00]. [00:32:00]. I think the problem was it was the overlap between business and art that made it difficult for them to manage the institution. So, you know, we can talk endlessly about art, and, you know, he invites me to his house, and we look at art. CLIFFORD SCHORER: And it may get burned, and it may also have little to no attention paid to it, because it may be lost in a sea of other things, and this exciting story we have to tell about your picture will be utterly lost. It was a kind of seeding operation, where they would send objects all over the United States. So I dropped. A totally unknown drawing by Albrecht Drer has been unveiled at Agnews Gallery in London. And I said, Oh, this is obvious what's happening. So, I mean, I rememberI remember buying that because I thought it would be a good decoration. I would think that you did have a lust for the object, with all the objects you've accumulated. 750 9th Street, NW CLIFFORD SCHORER: Of which I can appreciate; I mean, I understand that. JUDITH RICHARDS: If there are any remnants? JUDITH RICHARDS: Did youdid you make all those design decisions yourself? CLIFFORD SCHORER: And obviously really didn'tonly went back to drawings and prints when, you know, when there was something. It was Naples, [Jusepe de] Ribera, [Luca] Giordano at theyou know, Giordano at the beginning; Ribera towards thetowards the middle. Then I went back off to high school. JUDITH RICHARDS: Do you want to mention any specifics? Thereas I mentioned, I had been chasing in 2000 this Procaccini, this major Procaccini altarpiece, which I was not able to buy, and it was theit was with Hall & Knight, and it was at TEFAF, and it was one of those TEFAFs that you go home utterly devastated. JUDITH RICHARDS: You mentioned paleontology. I said, you know, "That's incredible.". And I think if you're focused enough to stay on the object, you know, to think at core about the transaction with your object and not listen to all the other noise and hype and marketing and, you know, all of that, and if you can learn as much as you can about that one object you're interested in, if you lose this one, so be it, you know. I mean, it's not a viewing area; it's not a formalI mean, it, you know. So, you know, you have theseyou have those happy happenstances. The auction house will charge me zero." But that would be locally; like, if an opportunity arose, I would go; I would look; I would buy something at an auction. [00:04:00]. The subjects that they were trying to make that were attractive to the audience. The sort of ante terminus that I'm sure of is March 11th of 1983, the day I started Bottom Line Exchange Company and filed for my papers. It was 2007 or '08. CLIFFORD SCHORER: That is related to Agnew's. And in some cases, they still collect in those fields, or more likely, given that it's now 40 years later, many of them are either passed away or quite old now. I mean, to me, the Met is visiting. JUDITH RICHARDS: Mm-hmm. CLIFFORD SCHORER: No. But I mean, as you became, CLIFFORD SCHORER: No, no, no. CLIFFORD SCHORER: This was '85, '86-ish, I think. And, you know, obviously, Bill Viola was looking at the Old Masters and thinking aboutyou know, he says as much in his own words. I think I turned 16 right aroundit was in that first year, so that's what I recall. CLIFFORD SCHORER: So I think of storage as storage, but just good climate control. You know, we saywe say that probably a little tongue in cheek because we know, of course, they would've loved to sell them as archaic objects, even when they weren't. [00:08:00]. If I saw something in the shop, I would buy it. And, you know, there was a day when Agnew's had 40 employees and a full building in London and, you know, exhibitions going on 24-7 and had printmaking exercises, had contemporary artists doing things. You know, that was the biggest problem. All those, you know, all the things I've picked up along the way. And so the National Gallery has our historic stock books and archive. CLIFFORD SCHORER: Well, we didn't get that far because they were literally setting it up when I arrived. CLIFFORD SCHORER: You know that these regional areas in Bulgaria were the places where they found the Thracian gold hoards, and then, of course, the national government took it all away from them. CLIFFORD SCHORER: And they decided to move to, you know, some pastoral landscape down south, not knowing at all what that meant. Or some of the 300? JUDITH RICHARDS: So this was the mid-'80s? Winslow Homer. JUDITH RICHARDS: Is that a whole collection or just two? To have the picture debuted with this book about how it's a masterpiece; have it not sell. And they are identical sizes; they're both signed; and to me, this is the project that shows Procaccini as the truly important artist that he was, not simply a Lombard artist, but a great artist. JUDITH RICHARDS: So you donated the piece, or you donated the funds for them to purchase the piece? The book isso, Hugh Brigstocke and his new. They had a big sale in the '80s, and just three or four weeks ago they had a sale of Dodo Dorrance, who was the daughter of Jack Dorrance, and in that sale was a beautiful Cezanne, really beautiful Cezanne. That's not going to happen. So for them to have, you know, something that is at that levelI mean, compared to broken pieces of pots, which is what the rest of the museum was, you know, broken fragments of pots and maybe some rings. And recently, Milwaukeeso I love Tanya Paul; she's the curator at Milwaukee. You know, all of those things, and then you just let go, and it's, you knowit is aI think my psychology is well suited for that in a sense, because I don't have this great lust for the object; I have the lust for the moments that, you know, that sort of [00:36:00]. JUDITH RICHARDS: Mm-hmm. And her maiden name was Mildred Wolfgang. It was a Saint Sebastian. More from This Artist Similar Designs. I lasted six months. American artist Winslow Homer (1836-1910) the self-taught master best known today for his scenes of nature and the sea got his start as one of the "special artists" of the Civil War. But yes, I did bring in a professional for a while. There are a lot of areas that are uncontrolled in the museum, like all the antiquities are in areas that are uncontrolled. [00:06:02]. Clifford is related to Marianne T Schorer and Clifford J Schorer as well as 3 additional people. Relocating to New York, he undertook assignments for Harper's Weekly, among other journals, and enrolled in drawing classes at the National Academy of Design. Mr. Schorer is a serial entrepreneur who specializes in the start-up acquisition and development of small and mid-sized companies. CLIFFORD SCHORER: Well, I was living in Chesterfield, and I was commuting to Ashland. JUDITH RICHARDS: So, that's the period of time, JUDITH RICHARDS: you were really developing. CLIFFORD SCHORER: Even though they're Americans, through and through. My maternal grandfather was dead by the time I was born. For an angel, I thought this was [laughs] such an unusual thing, to give them such a worldly attribute, you know, almost a peasant, worldly attribute. So, to me, that was, you knowthat was my day at that curator table, where I was silent the whole time, and at the end, I just sort of put the trump card down. CLIFFORD SCHORER: I went to TEFAF. Eagle Head,Manchester, Massachusetts (High Tide), 1870 Metropolitan Museum of Art, New York City The Herring Net, 1885 Art Institute of Chicago Winslow Homer is undoubtedly one of the foremost artists of the United States in the 19th century. I think that's a big story for Plovdiv. CLIFFORD SCHORER: No. [Laughs.] Fortunately, I had a business that owned a big warehouse. I'm not sure exactly the year, but I remember there were a few what I would consider to be ambitious acquisitions that I made that I was very, very pleased with, where there wasn't as much competition as I anticipated. JUDITH RICHARDS: And that went into your endowment? CLIFFORD SCHORER: Well, if I fall off a bridge in the next few months, everything goes to the various museums. CLIFFORD SCHORER: Now, the difference is if the artist is alive, and the dealer is alive, and you've got, you know, sort of some other motivations. Hunter Cole, artist. I wish I had. I lived between New York and Martha's Vineyard. I mean, I wasyou know, I had negative $8,000 to my name. JUDITH RICHARDS: Because you were continually not only expanding the view, but you were also refining and improving the quality of each example? Clifford celebrated 56th birthday on May 31. CLIFFORD SCHORER: I had a lot of books. Winslow Homer (1836 - 1910) was a remarkable American painter who mastered several mediums, including oils and watercolors. Thatyou know, the sophistication of the buyer and the marketplace in Old Masters is not going to be swayed in any way by [laughs], you know, that you had something on view momentarily, you know, in a museum; because you leveraged your ego or your money, or whatever it was, they've got your picture on view. A long time ago. CLIFFORD SCHORER: And then there's the collection that I was able to acquire that stimulated some of the same nerve cells, but possibly the L-DOPA levels were a little lower. I knewI knew that Best Products, 18 hours a day in front of the screen, wasn't going to be my long-term plan. CLIFFORD SCHORER: So I was livingI was in Paris a lot. So it was quite easy to understand the. JUDITH RICHARDS: So what were some of the early key purchases, and how did theywhy were they goals then and, JUDITH RICHARDS: how did they appear? But I was happy to help. And, you know, the best Procaccini, when I was looking back in 2000, was 5 to 6 million. CLIFFORD SCHORER: Yeah. Christopher Kingzett is still working independently in British Modern, and that's his field, is British 20th century, and Julian was more in the Old Masters and 19th century. "All in the Gay and Golden Weather", published June 12, 1869. CLIFFORD SCHORER: Hence, the doorway into paintings. Like, you knowand the same thing. Thank you! CLIFFORD SCHORER: in the fine art world, it wasn't there. But Iyou know, I think there was a book out that came out around that time that was local, by Carl Crossman, this sort of auctioneer up in New England. He told mehe shared that with me when I was 26, which I had not known. And in my new home in BostonI just got a small place to replace my big house because I needed a place to sleep when I'm in Boston. CLIFFORD SCHORER: they were also a very closed set. CLIFFORD SCHORER: Yeah. JUDITH RICHARDS: that you had worked on? And she's, you know, "Chiuso, chiuso." JUDITH RICHARDS: the auctions and the collectors? You know, I never thought of it as a practical way to improve the quality of the collection until recently, like until the last 10 years. CLIFFORD SCHORER: O-C-K-X, I believe. Then they have these mosaics from Antioch. I mean, you know, it's just, you knowI think the next time it comes through the marketplace, it'll say, you know, "We gratefully acknowledge Ms. Neilson, who said it's by Crespi." The neighborhoods that I knew. CLIFFORD SCHORER: In the Boston area. So, those days are long over, and to imagine what a business becomes when you were a thousand paintings a year to 12you know, and that'sand that each one of those 12 takes as much work as 17 to 20 of the pictures you sold in 1900. CLIFFORD SCHORER: And lots of it. I was in the running, and I lost it marginally. JUDITH RICHARDS: Do you speak to art historians who have. I've got some Islamic examples. [Laughs. And, CLIFFORD SCHORER: Probably about 10 years ago, where I just said, you know, maybe. JUDITH RICHARDS: Including a photograph? So, you knowand the money they made is what made the Rembrandts. [00:20:00] Yes, there was, of course, The Massacre of The Innocents by Rubens, which made 45 million, and two days later, for a relative bargain, a van Dyck of that painting, done in the studio at the same time, came on the marketa drawing of that painting. CLIFFORD SCHORER: So now there's really, you know, two sales worth attending. JUDITH RICHARDS: Have there been any surprises that you've come across in terms of this, being involved as you are with Agnew's? I was thinking of something more basic. So think about it from that perspective. It's a segue into theyou know, what was going on at that time. CLIFFORD SCHORER: Yeah, it's a biggerit's a much bigger issue than myself, and that's why I'm very pleased to have Anthony and Anna on board, because they are, you know, seasoned gallerists and auction specialists and, you know, managers and people who can handle those sorts of questions. 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